#155 Money Shame to Money Confidence with Keina Newell

Hey, this is Melissa Parsons, and you are listening to the Your Favorite You Podcast. I'm a certified life coach with an advanced certification in deep dive coaching. The purpose of this podcast is to help brilliant women like you with beautiful brains create the life you've been dreaming of with intentions. My goal is to help you find your favorite version of you by teaching you how to treat yourself as your own best friend.

If this sounds incredible to you and you want practical tips on changing up how you treat yourself, then you're in the right place. Just so you know, I'm a huge fan of using all of the words available to me in the English language, so please proceed with caution if young ears are around.

Melissa Parsons

Hello, everyone. Welcome back to Your Favorite You. You guys are in for a treat. You get to hear the amazing wisdom of my friend and coaching colleague, Keina Newell. I will actually have you introduce yourself to my people, Keina, by telling them about a favorite version of yourself.

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Keina Newell

Thank you for making me immediately tap into myself. I appreciate it.

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Melissa Parsons

You're so welcome.

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Keina Newell

I really love to leave with my head and not my heart.

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Melissa Parsons

I know this about you and I love you.

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Keina Newell

What is the favorite version of me... the first thing that comes up, I would just say just like the journey of entrepreneurship, which is like the roller coaster that it is, that no one ever told me about, they weren't honest. I would say like the last seven years I've been in business, just being able to see myself learn more about emotions or be more resilient and being able to just normalize experiences that I think have also... it's also gone hand in hand with aging and getting older. I just turned 40 this year and I'm like oh okay so this is 40. And like just being able to settle into I think new seasons. But having the skills and tools that coaching has afforded me. To be able to, I think just have a better self-talk and conversations about things that are going on in my life. I think I'm just meeting you in the last couple of years right and just like oh like you know what will you tell a best friend, you know, you have this like soothing voice that just makes you like okay like maybe I should be kinder to myself.

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Melissa Parsons

Maybe it wouldn't hurt me to do that.

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Keina Newell

I should be nice and like use a feeling or two.

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Melissa Parsons

Yeah. Find one and then use it.

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Keina Newell

Yeah, you know, I'm very, like I said, very logical and in my head, so.

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Melissa Parsons

Yeah. Tell our listeners how you became passionate about money and helping people with money.

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Keina Newell

Um, so funny story. I was actually a vice principal and a teacher. I went to college for management and finance, but then fell in love with teaching through Teach for America. But the only way that I said yes to joining Teach for America was that I had to figure out my finances because I was like, I'm going to be living on a teacher's salary. It's only going to be $30,000 a year. And so that actually led me to, I think the first time that I actually really looked at numbers, um, and fast forward, I'd been in education for over a decade and kind of came to this question of like, if you could do anything for free, like what would it be? And it came back to budgeting. Like I find budgeting to be very therapeutic. Like the numbers don't lie. Um, and so when I was like jumping ship from education, I found financial coaching and it still gives me this sense of fulfillment and being able to help people, but it's just a different side of education.

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Melissa Parsons

Yeah, I love it. And you're such a good teacher, so I mean, and, you know, using those skills that you obviously have honed over the years, just in a different way to help people, I think is amazing.

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Keina Newell

Well, I was talking actually to a client earlier today and she was telling me, she's like, you know, I actually have a disability in math, like a learning disability. And I was telling her, because I taught math, that one of the best things that I learned as a math teacher was the ability to meet a kid where they are, because I think so many people have hang-ups about math. But if you actually listen to kids and what they can do, there's a lot of things that kids do innately. And so you can build on what they do understand. And I really have tried to bring that into coaching, because money is math for people. And they already have thoughts about not being good at math. And so I think a big part of my embodiment of philosophy as a coach is like really being able to meet people where they are and building from that situation. Because I also think that it helps them stop the shame narrative that they have in their own life about whether or not they're good with money or the cycle that they're like, you know, I'm always in debt, or I've never been able to do this before, or I'm so smart, or whatever that narrative is, being able to meet someone where they are is really helpful.

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Melissa Parsons

Mm-hmm, co-signed, girl. So I love that your business is called Wealth Over Now. Can you explain what that means to you and why that kind of mindset is part of it?

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Keina Newell

I mean, when in the beginning I was like, this is so cool, I can write it as a fraction. So in the beginning, it was definitely about this idea of delayed gratification in order to build wealth. There are a lot of things that we have to be able to assess in terms of our life and say, okay, well, maybe I can't have this right now, but I'm going to, you know, put money into savings. I'm going to put money into my 401k. I think the evolution of also this idea of wealth over now is helping people to see that like, you can have a both and lifestyle, like I can build wealth and I can save money or I can build wealth and I can pay off debt. And so being able to, it doesn't have to be either like an all or nothing type of thinking when it comes to money.

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Melissa Parsons

Yeah. And I'm wondering too, as you were saying that I was thinking that you were going to say, and you may not agree with this, but being able to save and to spend some of your money, right? Not hoard it, thinking you have to hoard it all for something to buy.

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Keina Newell

I want people to be able to spend, I want them to be able to spend consciously. And it's interesting that you bring it up because some people don't, I do work with some people that don't want to spend money because they think they need to save it all. I think the main money narrative in America, right, is those people that are overspending. I think we hear more about those people versus the people that are concerned with what will happen if I do spend the money that I have. Will I be able to replace the savings? Or what if there is an emergency because I think that they have some underlying story that has made them want to hoard their money instead of being able to enjoy it.

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Melissa Parsons

Yeah, okay, perfect. So many, of course, of the brilliant women that I coach are high achievers in their careers, but they just feel completely lost when it comes to money. So why is it do you think that smart, capable women struggle so much with finances?

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Keina Newell

I think there's just this narrative that I'm bad with money.

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Melissa Parsons

that women in general are bad with money.

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Keina Newell

And yeah, women in general are bad with money. Also, if you look at society, men are encouraged to like invest and take risks, whereas women are told to like save, don't overspend. When a man is spending money, it's almost praised, right? Like, oh, you invested in real estate, like you're building something. Whereas with women, it's seen, I feel like, as something that's a little bit more like frivolous if they're spending money.

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Melissa Parsons

Right.

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Keina Newell

I'm saying that to say that with this dynamic, I think a lot of women always default to male partnerships for what they should be doing with money because they are the ones that have the voice for whether or not you're doing the right thing. Are you saving enough? Are you investing enough in retirement? There hasn't been this overall, I think, financial empowerment where women feel empowered to manage their money. Somewhere, they have adopted a narrative that they're bad with money even if they're not actually bad with money.

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Melissa Parsons

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's so true. So true. And I mean, we can blame the patriarchy for a lot of things, can't we, Keina?

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Keina Newell

Yes.

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Melissa Parsons

All right. So you talked a little bit about money shame. Um, you know, what does that actually look like and how can someone determine if they're stuck in money shame versus actually kind of being bad with money?

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Keina Newell

I think money shame is, it's almost where you find the I got yous that don't let you actually look at your number. So I think the shame is really just, I described the shame as, you know, when you were little and there was a monster in your room, but the monster is really like the sweater that's over the chair, but it was like a shadow that was casting on the wall. And I think that that shame doesn't allow you to actually look at the system that you have been using for your money. It's telling you that, you know, the one time you use YNAB, you couldn't figure it out, so you're always gonna be bad with money. Or you had a system in the past and now you, now that you've had kids or you move to a different state, like you can't figure out what to do with your money, so you're bad with money. So I think it's, I feel like shame is a monster that is telling you the reasons that you aren't able to advance financially forward, whatever advancement looks like for you. I think people have different markers of what that might be, whether it's being able to shop like their friends or feeling like you need to have a certain amount in retirement or maybe it's having all your student loans paid off or being able to buy a house. So there's some financial desire or goal that you have, whether you created it or it's created from your friends and seeing other people's situations. And shame, I think, is the thing that keeps you from asking for help. It keeps you from trying again and actually having a willingness and curiosity to figure out what is the thing that will work for me. Because maybe you are overspending, right? But if you didn't have shame telling you that that was a bad thing and that you just shouldn't try and that you shouldn't shut down, if shame wasn't there, then you could actually tackle the overspending and make it look like more of what you want it to look like. Is it actually overspending or do you actually need to earn more? Because I know, Melissa, from talking to you and other physicians, some physicians actually don't make that much money, but the narrative is you make good money. And I'm like, well, what's good money? Because $150,000 in Oklahoma versus Southern California is not the same 150,000.

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Melissa Parsons

Right. No, not even close.

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Keina Newell

And so I think that there's a lot of different inputs that shame doesn't allow you to look at or think about. So it might not, you might not actually be bad with money. You might be underfunded or maybe money is going out quicker than it should be going out, but you can't even investigate that if you have shame.

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Melissa Parsons

Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's so true. Yeah, I mean, shame with all things like just keeps you from being able to be real and true and honest about anything and being able and willing to like look and see like is there an actual problem here or is this just a narrative that either I've come up with or that I've adopted from somebody else?

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Keina Newell

I mean, you've heard me talk about fake math and fake math being this idea that we tell ourselves I think shame will be like, okay, well with the next paycheck or with the next raise or when I get a bonus and it allows you to delay when you will actually address the problem and you're waiting for the perfect moment instead of just saying like, you know what? I'm going to figure it out while it feels really messy.

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Melissa Parsons

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Oh my God. I can't tell you… Like personal story, how many times like Jon and I would say, Oh, well, once we're not having to pay for the nanny anymore, then we'll have all this money. And then all of a sudden we're not paying for the nanny, but we don't have any extra money.

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Keina Newell

That extra two thousand dollars for the nanny where did it go?

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Melissa Parsons

Very good question. Very, very good question. That's so funny.

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Keina Newell

It like gets eaten up with your lifestyle. And that's the thing is that's what fake math is. Like you're doing all these mental calculations and I think you mean well, but you haven't actually taken stock of where the money is actually going.

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Melissa Parsons

Yeah, I can remember years ago, and it was similar to you starting the entrepreneurial journey where, you know, I mean, my income as a pediatrician was very predictable, like it came in and like sometimes there would be bonuses and that type of thing. And it was predictable until it wasn't. When COVID hit, you know, my partners and I all took a 50% pay cut in order to keep our nurses and our front desk staff and that type of thing. And so my money story about being a pediatrician, being, you know, reliable, predictable, good money kind of went out the window when that, you know, decision came down. But I can remember thinking and I actually wrote it down. I was like doing some self-coaching and I was like, how has it gotten to be that, you know, John and I are in this partnership where he and I are both making, you know, decent money and he knows all about it. And I know nothing like and I'm trusting him. I mean, which I do. And it luckily for me, it did not backfire on me, but I'm sure that there are plenty of people who are not in my same situation where they're relying on someone else to be taking care of things and then things are not being taken care of or being mismanaged or, you know, whatever. So I think that was a big, like, aha moment to me. Like, why don't I know about this stuff?

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Keina Newell

Yeah. And I think that life circumstances are when somebody figures it out. Like you were saying, like, I've worked with a number of women who either came to me right after they got a divorce, or maybe they figured out that they wanted to separate while they were working with me, and they just don't know the numbers because they have defaulted to the other partner. Which to your point, like, I think that it's fine for you to be able to trust your partner, but just knowing that information can be very empowering because you never know if, like, your partner could pass away. And so do you actually know how to manage the finances if and when that happens? And so, like, you do want to have a hand in knowing, okay, here's what our numbers are. Just in general, you don't need to know down to every single penny, but in general, I know where the money's going.

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Melissa Parsons

Yeah, or where it is, like, you know, prior to, you know, me doing this work of figuring it out, you know, had something happened to John, like, I would have not known, like, where it was, like, like, he has a file, and I would have eventually found it, and I wouldn't be able to call the people and talk to them. But, you know, I think you're right, it's the idea of just knowing not that you even necessarily have to change anything about your behavior, but knowing to have the power to know if a change is necessary or warranted.

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Keina Newell

And to also know your lifestyle, if like your partner, if something happened to your partner, anything could happen to your partner, right? And it's like to just have a pulse to say like, okay, we spend $15,000 a month, but if this happened, maybe my expenses would have to increase or maybe my expenses would need to decrease. And just being able to know that you're equipped to have that conversation with yourself or being able to know that like I have someone whom I trust that I can have that conversation with and that I just wouldn't feel like everything is just gonna blow up in my face. But earlier when you were talking about your salary being reduced so you could save your staff as well, I think people give a lot of confidence to their paychecks and they outsource that confidence. And that's another reason that sometimes people don't look at numbers is they just tell themselves like I make enough money, I shouldn't have to manage it. Because I think budgeting is seen as something that you do and you don't make enough. Like it's for lower-class people, like it's not for people that make six figures. And I see budgeting as like a tool to help you be able to build wealth and to help you be able to like actually live the life that you desire to live. It's not just about the offer letter that you get. It's not just about the bonuses because you wanna be able, you go to work, I mean, doctors, right? You could work 40, 80, 100 hours a week. Yeah, easy. I want you to, you know, can we spend one hour or even 30 minutes just a week knowing that the money that you're working so hard for is actually going to the things that you desire.

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Melissa Parsons

Yes. It's travel for me, as you well know. Oh my gosh. Okay, so I have heard you before say that women would rather discuss sex than they would want to discuss money.

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Keina Newell

Of course that’s what you would talk about.

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Melissa Parsons

Of course it is. So why do you think that money feels so much more vulnerable and scary to discuss?

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Keina Newell

I think people just don't talk about it as much. Like it's like more weighted and I think a greater judgment on your character. I personally wouldn't want to be referred to as a slut. I think I'd rather be in debt, but I do feel like it's okay for you to be like a slut versus be really bad with your money and overdrafting, right? I feel like it goes back to this shame and embarrassment that feels a lot weightier than it does talking about your like sex life. I think you can kind of be a little cheeky with your sex life, but with your money to be talking about how much debt you're in, I think leads to the sense of you're irresponsible, you're not successful, and it attaches to your identity differently.

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Melissa Parsons

Mm hmm. Yeah. If you were so smart, you would have figured this out by now type of thing. So interesting. Okay.

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Keina Newell

I don't think sex equates to like smartness because I think women would say like I'm having sex because I want to be liberated, right? Like they could justify it. Whereas I don't think someone feels as confident justifying having a negative bank account.

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Melissa Parsons

Mm-hmm. Well, God, yeah. And if you have money in your budget for the things that you love to do, what's more liberating than that, honestly?

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Melissa Parsons

So interesting. Okay, okay, okay.

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Keina Newell

Do you have, I'm curious, do you have different thoughts? Like, why would you think someone would be, you didn't say it, I said it.

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Melissa Parsons

But yeah, no, no, no, I don't I mean, I think that, you know, certainly, I was raised to think that, you know, what other people make and like their salary and you know, how much money they have and what they own and that type of thing is none of my business, right? It's like a taboo subject that you don't talk about. And I think until I got into the coaching world where, you know, there are a lot of people, you know, who are really celebrating the fact that, you know, that there's a lot of money out there and there's, you know, there's this whole in society, like the idea of money scarcity, like people believe that rather than they want to believe in abundance. So and I think it comes back to like, oh, this is just something that we don't talk about in polite company.

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Keina Newell

Mm-hmm.

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Melissa Parsons

So, but I mean, that was also sex from growing up too. So they were kind of in, although of course I did not subscribe. I did not subscribe much to the dismay of my family. Hi mom, if you're listening. Oh gosh. All right. So you've talked about you loving budgets and you loving math and that type of thing. What's the difference between a budget and a spending plan and why do you think it matters, the distinction?

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Keina Newell

I feel like when people say budget to someone, I think people immediately associate it with restriction.

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Melissa Parsons

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

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Keina Newell

When I say spending plan, it's like I just want you to create a plan for how you spend your money. And I also talk a lot about like a list of bills is not a budget. I think that we all have gotten really good at paying bills. Like that was right, like the first tier of budgeting that everybody needed to learn. Make sure you can pay your rent, your electricity. And after that, people just give them self permission to spend, but they don't necessarily think about the things that catch them off guard or the lifestyle they want to lead. Like you were saying, like you enjoy traveling. And if people really got honest with like, well, how much do I really want to spend traveling? It might be for some people, it's 10, 20, $30,000 a year. And so how are you actually planning for that and not just funding it with a bonus? Because I know that for some people, and I know this because they're my clients with love, right? Like that's how they're funding their travel. But then what happens is that same year, if you need a roof because you own a home and now it's like travel or home, now your credit card, you got to swipe it, right? And there's just like all of these different things. So in a spending plan, we're just, we're planning for the things that we know we want to happen. And we're also planning for the things that will happen, like something going wrong with your house, a car and eating some tires and just creating space for that so you can have more peace and be able to spend money in the same way that you enjoy spending money, but without it being and feeling stressful.

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Melissa Parsons

Yeah, without feeling like you have to white knuckle through the whole thing. Okay, awesome. So you talk about, you know, people who are making good money, but who have more month than money. Is it just that they're overspending, or is it that they're not saving enough or probably a combo of the two?

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Keina Newell

I feel like what happens is that people don't have predictability in their budget. And I'm talking, I'm just gonna give this example. I won't use my client's name. I have a client who makes $25,000 a month. Okay. Which I think anyone hearing that is like, okay. Yeah, sounds good. Yeah, like you should be good. Prior to working with me, her bank account was going into the negative. Wow. And she was having to dip into her personal line of credit. So if you're listening and you're like, if I just made more money, I would be okay. That's not true. If you don't have a plan for your finances. And so, I mean, it was things like, oh, this month we had to, like the car broke down. Or she actually is taking care of her mom. Her mom lives with her. It's like, oh, well my mom needed more care this month. And so there's a lot of like fluctuations in terms of unexpected expenses, if you will. But I don't believe in unexpected expenses. If it happened once, it can happen again. We just need to make space for it. And so some months, I feel like she was spending a little bit less. But then in another month where she has like a, both cars broke down and we had to get something. Like I had a flood in the house and we had to call her a repairman. Like that's when she's going in the negative and the credit cards are being used. So I think it's about not having and developing consistency for how you think about your money from month to month that leads you to just having the sense of, I kind of never have enough money.

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Melissa Parsons

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I mean, it sounds to me, and I know that this is true because I know you, but that there's a lot of mindset work that you do with people in order to help them to see that these unexpected things aren't necessarily unexpected and the value of planning for the unexpected when, you know, most people even making six figures still are sometimes living paycheck-to-paycheck. Mm-hmm.

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Keina Newell

Mm-hmm like I need I need you to know that you're your employer could not pay you for one to two page Paycheck cycles and you'd be okay

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Melissa Parsons

Mm hmm. And a lot of what comes. Yeah.

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Keina Newell

And a lot of people can't say that they experienced that.

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Melissa Parsons

Mm-hmm. You mentioned credit cards and you know I love them because I love getting my points so that I can travel and that type of thing. And I also never put anything on a credit card that I can't pay with cash that month, right? Do you have any advice for those of us who love our credit cards? And is it basically what I just said? Like, don't put anything on there that you

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Keina Newell

But just because you pay for it in cash doesn't actually mean you can afford it. Um, okay. Gotcha. Because there's the person that's like, Hey, my credit card's $3,000. Their bank account is $3,100. They pay off that credit card, but they're paying for last month's expenses. And like I, I always suggest some of my clients, especially when they first work with me, I'm like, Hey, let's, if you're going to use your credit card, let's pay it off every week because I need your bank account balance to like reflect the deductions. And I need us to be paying for things in real time because by the time the credit card gets to you with a statement, you've already added more to it because that statement exit, you know what I mean? There's like a gap in between the statement closes and the activity continues to go. Right. Um, so I don't think credit, like I like credit cards. I think there's security in them. I love calling chase if I need to and be like, excuse me, this business did not treat me right. Can you handle it because I can't talk to them. I am done with them. Yes. There could be some benefits to having credit cards. I still just want people, I want you to know what you're putting on your credit card because generally people are using their credit card and they're using their bank account and those two types of spending aren't talking to one another. And so that's how you get to the end of the month. And you're like, dang, how's my credit card? $5,000. Like I didn't, I didn't put that much on it, but it's, I think it's a way that money is hidden from you.

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Melissa Parsons

Yeah. Gotcha. Okay. Fair, fair, fair. Okay. Awesome. So for, I'm sure you work with plenty of people who grew up with money stress, money scarcity, you know, people living in poverty, really. And how do you help them start trusting themselves with money as an adult?

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Keina Newell

I love celebrating wins with people.

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Melissa Parsons

Okay, me too.

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Keina Newell

I think celebration is really where the trust starts to develop, where the things that would trigger them prior to working with me no longer trigger them and naming that for them. I keep using car because literally all my clients talk about car maintenance.

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Melissa Parsons

Mine's in the shop right now. See, it's still under warranty though, so no cost to me except my monthly payment.

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Keina Newell

Um, but I like a car payment can be very, very triggering for some people or not a car payment, but car auto maintenance. And you know, I had to pay $250. And so celebrating with someone and being like, look, you did have your car did have to go into the shop, but you were able to pay for it. You didn't feel the stress in your body that you normally would have stressed. Like you didn't get tight in your shoulders. You were able to actually sleep at night. And so just being able to be a mirror of reflection for them and getting them to start seeing how they're developing wins, because I think with any goal that we have, especially when it comes to finances, you move the goal post. And so people, I find that like someone who has a scarcity mindset, they, they're going to move the goal posts along with everyone else. And so I need them to know, like, look at how far you've come and here are all the reasons you can trust yourself. So let's say you do forget to pay a bill and they charge you a late fee. Don't go immediately back to not being good with money, which is the story that you've always told yourself. It could just be simply that you forgot. Right. You can pay the bill. Yes. And you could pay the bill. Oh, and guess what? You can call them and say, excuse me, can you remove that late charge? Like, you know, you can see that I always pay my bill on time. And so for them to be able to not make it mean something personal about them, that they missed a bill. So just, I think it's constantly just reworking, helping them rework the narrative to allow them to be able to build that trust with themselves.

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Melissa Parsons

Yeah. And I mean, you're speaking right to my perfectionistic people who are afraid of making any mistakes. And it's like, Oh gosh, no, like you're allowed to be human. Like I don't, I don't know a person who hasn't had to at least call about the late fee and say, Hey, I've never done this before. Can we knock it off this time? You know, like present company included.

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Keina Newell

I mean, I feel like, I can't remember. I think I wrote an email somewhere. I forgot to pay something earlier this year. I was like, oh, okay, let me call.

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Melissa Parsons

And then I love how transparent you were. You wrote the email right away.

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Keina Newell

Yeah, because I don't make it mean anything about myself. I know that I'm good at managing my money and I overspend at times, but because my system works for me 90% of the time, that other 10% can be kind of gray and I don't have to be super strict with myself.

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Melissa Parsons

Right. So sphincter tone tight with it. Yeah. That's so cool. Okay. Awesome. What are other things? I haven't asked you all the questions, but I've asked you a lot of questions. Are there any things that you think brilliant women need to know that we haven't talked about regarding money, Keina?

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Keina Newell

I think you're closer than you think you are. And so just giving yourself permission to start, like my favorite, look, I'm going to use an emotion. I think it's an emotion you can tell me it's not. But like, I think what we need to bring to all money conversations is just curiosity. And I think when you can be curious with your money, it makes it so much lighter. And if you choose to actually start moving forward today, whether it's looking at a coach or actually opening up the retirement paperwork or the bill that you are refusing to look at or your bank account, like it's one step in the right direction for you. And that those actions are going to be additive and actually create some type of change in the long run.

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Melissa Parsons

Yeah, that's awesome. All right. Well, why don't you tell all of my millions of listeners how they can find you and, you know, how you work with people and what your current offers are and all that kind of good stuff.

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Keina Newell

Millions of people, you've been on a lot of podcasts since the last time we talked. So you can find me online at wealthovernow.com. You can find me on Instagram. And then I also have a podcast called Money Files. Don't ask me why it's named that, long ago I created it.

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Melissa Parsons

I love it, you liked it at some point.

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Keina Newell

I liked it at some point. It'll probably get a name change one day. And I actually still work with clients one-to-one. So I work with them for five months and we, it's like going to the gynecologist. Like I joke that I basically see vaginas all day, but they don't bother me. Cause I look at them all the time.

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Melissa Parsons

Oh my, it's amazing.

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Keina Newell

But I would say that we get to be really personal with your finances and not in a way where you're going to feel like you're being shamed or judged. But honestly, to be able to be curious and say, what are your patterns and how do we actually make a plan to help you feel better about how you're spending money?

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Melissa Parsons

Yeah, I know one of our friends worked with you, she shall remain nameless. But I remember her saying, initially, she was like, I was so afraid to go and meet with Keina. And she's like, and then it became my favorite part of the week. And I know that she and her family are really benefiting from the work that you did together. So that's amazing.

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Keina Newell

That means more than you know. But yeah, I think, and also I would say, like anybody who's listening that's like, you're curious, don't let perfection get in the way because I think that is something that gets in the way for people. Like you feel like you need to get it all together or let me just get all of this spending done and then I'll reach out to someone, which I hear. They can see that, yeah. Like it's like last supper, like, you know, like I'm gonna start on Monday, but let me eat this weekend. And then on Monday, I'm going to diet. And I'm like, but I could actually help you eat over the weekend and then you could, you know, we could still start on Monday. So it doesn't, things don't have to be cleaned up. Like the messier you are, the better results you get, if you will. Yeah, oh yeah, that's amazing. Cause if you could clean it up, then it would already be cleaned up. Just be honest.

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Melissa Parsons

Yeah, that's so true. And that's just a message that all of my people need to hear. Like, if you could have done it on your own already, you already would have because you're amazing and you're badass and you've figured out other hard things. And there's just a roadblock that, you know, that people need help over the hump with. So.

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Keina Newell

Yeah. And it doesn't mean that you are inadequate when you need help. And I think like even for myself, right? It's a reminder to be like, Oh, I'm too emotional about it or attached to it. And so I need to let somebody else talk to me about it.

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Melissa Parsons

So good. Well, thank you so much for coming on and sharing your knowledge and laughter and your beautiful self with all of us. I appreciate it so much.

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Keina Newell

Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

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Melissa Parsons

All right, Keina, have a great week, everyone. We'll see you next week.

Hey, before you go, I want to tell you about something special I'm doing that I think you're going to love. On Tuesday, September 30th at 7 p.m. Eastern, I'm hosting a free workshop called Why Smart Women Stay Stuck and the one ship that's set you free. If you've been listening to this podcast, you know that I work with growing accomplished women who have achieved everything they thought they wanted, but still feel stuck in one way or another. This workshop is for you if you're tired of overthinking every decision, if you're exhausted from seeking everyone else's approval, or if you know you're capable of more but can't figure out what more even looks like.

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