#174 Our Most Precious Resource: Time with Kristine Goins, MD

Hey, this is Melissa Parsons, and you are listening to the Your Favorite You Podcast. I'm a certified life coach with an advanced certification in deep dive coaching. The purpose of this podcast is to help brilliant women like you with beautiful brains create the life you've been dreaming of with intentions. My goal is to help you find your favorite version of you by teaching you how to treat yourself as your own best friend.

If this sounds incredible to you and you want practical tips on changing up how you treat yourself, then you're in the right place. Just so you know, I'm a huge fan of using all of the words available to me in the English language, so please proceed with caution if young ears are around.

Melissa Parsons

Hello, once again, Your Favorite You listeners. We are very lucky to be joined today by my friend and colleague, Kristine Goins. Kristine and I met recently at the Physician Coaching Summit, which we both attended in November. And after hearing her speak at the conference, I knew right then and there that I wanted her to come onto the pod and share her beautiful wisdom with us. So hi, Kristine. Thanks so much for being here.

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Kristine Goins

Thanks so much for having me.

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Melissa Parsons

Yeah, I'm excited. The first question I'm going to ask you is how I ask all of my guests to introduce themselves. And that is by telling the audience about your current favorite version of you.

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Kristine Goins

My current favorite version of me does not care what other people think and just shows up in her authenticity and focuses a lot on time, location, financial, and psychological freedom.

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Melissa Parsons

Hmm. I love that answer. I love it. I love it. So many of us think that money is our most precious resource, and we spend our lives trying to accumulate more of it so that we can spend it and have it and that type of thing. And during your fabulous talk at the summit, you reintroduced me to the idea that time is actually our most precious and valuable resource. What do you want to share with our listeners about that? How did you come to that idea? How has living into that changed your life? I want to hear everything.

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Kristine Goins

I think I came into it during the last five years, which I think many of us have probably had some thought shifts about how we spend our time at least over the last five or six years. And during that time, I have been in one of my stages of burnout throughout my career. And it had been a burnout for about a couple years.

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Melissa Parsons

Mm hmm.

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Kristine Goins

At that point, I had physical manifestations all over my body. I was having headaches. I was having chest pain in between clinics. I started having whole body spasms that I thought was maybe the beginning of some kind of neurological disease I couldn't get rid of. So I went to a neurologist and about five minutes in, he was saying to me, you know what, just stop. Cause I was complaining about work and how stressful it was. He's like, just stop, stop, stop. Um, I can just prescribe you some Lexapro. And I was very confused and I was like-

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Melissa Parsons

Let's set the stage, because you're a psychiatrist, right?

Kristine Goins

Yes, I am.

Melissa Parsons

Okay, so going to the neurologist with physical manifestations of what we know now is stress and burnout, and having the neurologist say, let me prescribe you this antidepressant. And you were like, thanks, but no thanks, I think.

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Kristine Goins

Yes, yes, I was just like, not so much serotonin imbalance, more lifestyle imbalance, more of I thought this, this was what I wanted, all of these things, there was accolades, there were title, there were, you know, ways that I was spending my time, which maybe 10, 20 years ago was my dream of like, Oh, I could do this, I could work with these, could you know, communities and I could have this impact and not that any of those things were important to me. But there were other things that were also really important to me travel, spending time, just getting to know myself, different layers of myself, spending quality time with people that I love, all of that was really important. So that's what I got out of that encounter with a neurologist, during that time, within about a couple months or so, both of my grandmothers died. And we were planning birthday parties. And I had my first Zoom funeral. And when all of that happened in such a short time, in the midst of my burnout, I said, I think I have five years, this is my five-year plan. I don't know if I have that. And I think a lot of us live life in a way where we have this presumption that we have a certain amount of time and oh, well, I'll just save up, you know, and then in retirement, maybe I'll do, maybe in 10 years, maybe when the kids are older, like there's a lot of different things that we put around when we will have the opportunity to do something and we don't know if that really exists. And so I think I really came to the head of that instead if I really want something, if I really want to experience something in my life, now is the time that I have to do it. And so I've put in my four months in both the one-way ticket to Columbia.

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Melissa Parsons

Amazing. And I mean, I think, you know, I think a lot of people have contemplated like, if I only had five years left to live, what would I do? And I think that that question is so scary for people that they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, like, whatever. I don't really have just five years. I can always put something off to the future. And I think especially in medicine or, you know, careers where you're always trying to meet the next set of goalposts, like you're always thinking about the future and how it's going to be somehow magically better there. And, you know, spoiler alert, it never is. And there is no there there. And, you know, I don't think that that is, you know, limited to medicine. I think a lot of people are kind of living their lives that way. So and then I mean, I think the other thing that you talked and, you know, talked about so brilliantly at the summit was this idea of the historical and social and economic forces that got us to buy into the bullshit that time equals money. So under that lens, like, why do you think that we think that we have to work so damn much?

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Kristine Goins

You know, I think it is that constellation of influences. It's one thing if you hear something just from your family, but when you're hearing it from the culture that you live in, you're hearing that when you go to work, you hear it from your friends, it's pretty much everywhere you turn, everyone is focused in the same way about the meaning of money and time equaling money. And if time equals money in any way, shape, or form in every environment that you go into, you're gonna start believing that time really equals money. It's gonna be difficult to think outside, I think, of that construct. And so I think, and it benefits so many different industries and systems for us to believe that. I mean, that is truly the only way to extract the greatest amount of productivity from someone is for them to believe that. And so I think thinking outside of that concept is so dangerous to these industries that want to extract that value and that productivity from you that it's in their best interest to keep this lie going. And so I think it is challenging. You have to be super intentional and keep it at the forefront of your mind in order for you to think something differently. But when you really look back in the past at how not that long ago, people have worked so differently. People have really put leisure at the forefront of their life, even though they still ate and they still slept and they still had families and went to church and did all kinds of stuff. Just to think about how differently we spend our time and think about the life energy that we have now, it is very, there's such a huge discrepancy. And I think that if we, people talk about valuing time, but I think if we actually honor time the way that we say, I think most people would radically change their lives in terms of the amount of life energy and hours that they put into work versus the experiences and the relationships they wanna have.

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Melissa Parsons

Mm-hmm. Oh, I am with you there. I mean, it's just crazy when you think about it. And we just all have bought into it. And, you know, most people do not see a way around it. And they see somebody like you who, you know, rose up in her career and had everything that she dreamed of. And hearing you say, like, I gave my four months notice and booked a ticket to Columbia. Like, I'm sure people in your life were like, Kristine, have you lost your ever loving mind? For sure. And now they're all like, Kristine, can you teach me your ways? What's the next trip? Where are we going? Yeah, exactly, exactly. I mean, I think just even, I don't know if you remember at the summit, but we were asked to share how we have our own backs. And, you know, one of the things that I said was, you know, having white space on my calendar and not making myself feel like a failure or lazy or immoral, you know, because, you know, as you said in your talk, you know, religion played a huge role in this, making us think that hard work, equal virtue and rest and idleness, you know, made you a sloth and, you know, immoral. And I loved, I'm going to quote you back to you. You said, we stopped rising when we were rested and started rising when we were summoned. And that line, Kristine, like, took my breath away. Like, one of my biggest flexes now is that I don't ever wake up with an alarm. Like, unless I have a flight to go somewhere. And, you know, I just let my body naturally wake up. And you shared in the talk that, you know, before the invention of the light bulb, average human slept 11 hours at night. And, you know, now we're lucky if we get seven, and we're wondering why we're exhausted. And, you know, here in the eastern part of the US, it gets dark at like four o'clock. And, you know, I'm like, is it time for bed? I mean, it would have been, you know, back in the day or time to read by candlelight or something, right? But I don't know. It's just crazy when I think about, you know, how much my life has changed when I started recognizing that time was of the essence and that I, you know, thinking about how I wanted to spend it. So tell me, like, what does your life look like practically now? Like, I know before you were working in 10 different clinics and seeing tons of patients and, you know, that type of thing and running from place to place, what does it look like now?

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Kristine Goins

So now I practice medicine one day a week, on Thursdays, and then about five to 10-ish hours a week, I also will coach other physicians on how to replace their physician and come abroad, achieve time and location freedom, their version of it. And outside of that, I'm usually traveling, like exploring wherever it is that I'm living right now in Lima, Peru. So, you know, taking time to go to museums, learn about the history, a wine professional, so digging into the wine scene, which I've been doing this week. Just all of the things that bring me joy, you know, I just like to have fun and exercise so after this, I'm gonna go meet my trainer. I love it. Those kind of things.

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Melissa Parsons

I love it. I love it. I love it. So has working less and spending less time on work and that type of thing, has it decreased your productivity? Tell me what has happened as a natural consequence of this.

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Kristine Goins

You know, I'm trying to really put it into words. Like life doesn't feel the same. Like I felt like the center of my life for decades was work and was medicine.

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Melissa Parsons

Mm hmm.

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Kristine Goins

And to decenter work from my life. It just, it feels like peace. It feels like freedom. It feels like leisure. And to be honest, it's still a work in progress because so many years of thinking that way, when I'm lying on the couch, by the second hour, my brain just says like, you don't wanna go do some work or you don't wanna go, you know, be productive and have them in some kind of way. So it is like a constant work in progress to think differently about it. But, you know, I've been able to make more money and less time. And I think part of being able to do that is to believe that that is a thing. Like, if you don't believe that that's possible, you won't seek out ways to do that.

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Melissa Parsons

Mm-hmm.

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Kristine Goins

And I feel that working in this way has also allowed me to have more connections and more impact than I ever would have running around 10 different clinics, seeing patients, especially working with doctors who see so many patients. I think it's just a different way of thinking and looking at time. And it is different because not every person around me is also thinking that way. So it is still, you know, like I am living that way, but I have friends and I have family who are still very much the center of their lives as work. So it's still, you know, being flexible, right? In the world where people are still thinking and feeling that way. But I think for me personally, it almost like expands life in the time that I have because there's so much more to do when you're not just working outside. There's so much more to see and experience.

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Melissa Parsons

Yeah. Kind of like bending space, time continuum. I have no idea what that means, but I've heard it on the Big Bang Theory and it sounds like what you're doing. Oh my gosh. I love some of the studies that you shared in your talk about how working longer hours has such negative consequences on our health in terms of increasing the risk of heart disease and stroke. And then of course, all the effects that it has on our mental health with depression and anxiety and burnout and even, especially in the physician community, suicidality and the converse, like time off, increasing our productivity and our creativity and actually helping our immune system, which I love to see the research on that. And I'm sure that smart people are doing it and it's going to be coming down the pike even more.

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Kristine Goins

So for sure. And I think also, in that vein, like the studies that show that it's actually leisure time and not money that actually benefits us in terms of like our happiness and overall satisfaction with life. It's nice to know that in terms of the research, but I don't think we really live like we believe it.

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Melissa Parsons

Right, yeah. You are. You're the example. You get to go first. And, you know, we all get to see the fruits of your non-labors. The other thing that I loved that you shared in the talk was how often we as physicians, you know, prescribe rest as medicine for our patients. But then we turn around and deny it to ourselves. And, like, why are we so damn mean to ourselves?

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Kristine Goins

I think that it comes from what I like to call the trauma of training, I think there's a lot of different unhelpful learning patterns that we get from training itself. And I think one of those like hidden curriculums that we learn is that in order to do really good work, you have to sacrifice yourself.

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Melissa Parsons

Mm-hmm.

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Kristine Goins

You have to deny so many things about yourself. I think there's a lot of dehumanizing ourselves that we do in training, even through little things like not going to the bathroom for eight hours or not eating breakfast or lunch or sometimes dinner either. Where we force ourselves to stay up for really long hours even though our body is begging for sleep. There's just a lot of ways that we put our physical and mental emotional health to the side and through also just how training is and for most of us who don't have like a trust fund, we also make a lot of financial sacrifices throughout that time of training. And so pretty much in every kind of facet aspect of our lives throughout medical training, we are told that we have to wait and we have to sacrifice and we come last. And I think it's really hard to believe that, like to act in that way for years and then on the other side of it, be like, yeah, I'm really important and I should take care of myself. Even though I've spent all these years focusing on taking care of others.

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Melissa Parsons

Yeah. Well, in focusing on not even meeting my most basic of needs and talk about the system benefiting, like the system definitely benefits from us doing this and, you know, the idea that our busyness equals our worth as physicians. And like that is fed to us, bad to us. And we gobble it up. And I think, you know, high achievers, present company included, we learn so fast typically, but when it comes time to unlearn things, it's really hard for us to do that, to not believe what we've been fed. And I mean, I'm going to use the word brainwashed to believe is necessary in order to help people, which is why most of us went into medicine in the first place because we wanted to help and we wanted to care give and it's just so much.

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Kristine Goins

Yeah, yeah. And I think that there is a form of manipulation in that. I mean, it continues, RBU targets and all, right? It's still there. And it takes being willing to think differently, like being willing, I think for most doctors that I know, for them to break out of it, it took some type of trauma, like some kind of medical emergency situation, mental health issue to kind of yank us out of it. But it would be really wonderful. And I'm seeing more and more now, just being in the position that I'm in, even people right out of training, thinking differently about what they want their careers to be like.

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Melissa Parsons

Yeah, that's so beautiful. And I think, you know, like any systemic change, it's going to take a critical mass of people to decide that this is not the way. And it feels to me like we're going in that direction. So I'm hopeful for that. So in your talk, you shared like, how do we figure this all out? And you gave us some ideas. So the first one was to figure out, you know, what your values are, and to look at your calendar. And if something is not on your calendar, decide, is it a true value or is it not? And you said time is how values become visible. Talk a little bit more about that if you don't mind, Kristine.

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Kristine Goins

Yeah, you know, I just think that it's really common for us to say what we value most, you know, family, you know, like, there's a lot of different things that are really common, but I think it's really in the actions, not in the words that we exhibit what's really important to us, if something is not on your calendar, weekly, monthly, it's not, it can't be that important, like, it just can't be, you're not spending enough time engaged in it, connected with it. And so I think it, if we really use our calendar and how we actually spend our time on a regular basis as an example of what we value most in life, I think a lot of us would be shocked at what it shows us that we care most about or what we think is most essential, most necessary, most significant for our life experience. And so I think being able to take an honest look at our calendars could be a really great first start.

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Melissa Parsons

Yeah, I was introduced to the idea, gosh, probably in early 2020, before even the COVID pandemic happened, to put rest and leisure and play on my calendar first, before I put all the other things that I had to do. Right? Because if you don't, those things are never going to make it on there because life keeps life-ing and people keep asking you to do things and you keep saying yes to things and that type of thing. So I love the idea of, and I try to talk people into it or at least try it for a couple weeks. If you find out, no, this isn't it, then you can go back to doing it the other way, right? But I have never met anybody who does.

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Kristine Goins

No, life is so much fun that way. I think, I think putting in the things that are most important to you, the things that you value, the joys, the leisure, the rest first, and then fitting your work into the margins of that is a radically different way to spend your time in your life. Yeah, you will be happier. It's just, in the beginning, your nervous system might be a little shot.

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Melissa Parsons

Yeah. Oh yeah. Like, Oh, are we really doing this? And it's like, yeah, let's try it for a week or two and see, or even a day. Like, you know, you don't even have to bite off a whole week. You could just like pick a day of the week and, you know, have it that way. So the next thing you said was get curious about your brain. And you said all of our actions have a story behind them. Want to say a little bit more about that.

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Kristine Goins

Yeah, I think too, like sometimes we, we take certain actions, like for instance, putting things on our calendar that we don't necessarily like we find like there's some resistance to actually participating in that meeting or going to that event or red. And, and it's just like, get curious about that. Like, okay, well, why did I schedule that? Was it obligation? Was it people pleasing? Was it, I just don't want to be uncomfortable when I say no, and the person gives me a look or ask me why, you know, just to get really curious about what's happening in our brain, but this happened to me. And I'll be an example, this happened to me not that long ago, I was, I was scheduling this hair appointment. And I was talking to my sister, I'm like, I'm feeling I really don't want to go to this hair appointment. She's like, why? I'm like, it's gonna be like an eight to 10 hour endeavor, just to do this one hair appointment. And she said, but why are you doing it? It's just like, why am I doing it? And I was like, I didn't want to disappoint my hairdresser because we have formed this relationship. And I knew like her financial situation. And that was like people pleasing. And so I came up with a difference. And I'll be like, you know what, I will go by and just drop her a cancellation fee, that will take me 30 minutes. And now I just got nine and a half hours of my life back from not being

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Melissa Parsons

Seriously, I will pay you to get this time back.

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Kristine Goins

Yeah, like, it was the best use of my financial and time resources. So I think it's just kind of just get curious about what's coming up around the actions that you have, things that are on your calendar, and just why and you might be really surprised at why you're doing some of the things you're doing.

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Melissa Parsons

Yeah, and then when you figure out that why, the next step you said is process your why. So what does that look like to you?

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Kristine Goins

You know, it's just it's once you kind of figure that out, decide like what it is that you want to do about it. You know, do you want to keep moving in that vein? Do you want to be able to like sit with your emotions like just sit with the discomfort of having to tell someone now telling someone no is especially as an overachieving people pleaser is pretty uncomfortable. No, but if you can process that feeling, if you can sit with that, it's not going to stay forever. So I think just being able to kind of take the time to be curious and sit with the emotions and the uncomfortability that comes up when you think about why you're doing certain why we do certain things, why certain things are on our calendar. It can be very freeing, like in the beginning is uncomfortable, but that discomfort is going to be worth all the time and energy and resources that you're going to gain. Yes, once you're able to move through it.

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Melissa Parsons

Yes, yes, yes. In your talk, you said discomfort is the toll we pay for a better life. And I was like, yes, my friend. I love it. I'll feel this uncomfortable feeling for as long as it takes, as long as I don't have to do that thing that I was dreading, I will definitely pay money to not have to, you know, spend time doing things that I never want to do again. And, you know, I look at it as like paying things forward. Like I think of you with your hairdresser. You gave her the cancellation fee. It also cleared up nine and a half hours for her so that she could have another client who actually needed to have their hair done come in and she gets paid double. Like it's a beautiful thing. Win-win. Win-win-win all the way around. I love it. And then the other step that you said that we didn't touch on was deciding ahead of time. You said set some limits, decide the test you're never going to do again, decide how much time to allocate to something before doing it. Is there anything you want to add to that step, Kristine?

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Kristine Goins

I think that, especially as overachievers, when it comes to intellectual tasks, especially, we can have a never-ending date to work on it and never ending amount of time to perfect something because we love to perfect things.

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Melissa Parsons

Just a few more minutes to make this a tiny bit better, yeah.

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Kristine Goins

So I literally believe like having a practice and it really is practice of allowing things to be a set time and allowing things to be good enough.

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Melissa Parsons

Mmhmm.

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Kristine Goins

You know, everything that we do in our lives doesn't have to be a plus plus plus. You know, it's, you know, it's like, I just want to sweep the floor, but it doesn't have to, it's going to take me twice as long. It has to be a plus plus plus.

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Melissa Parsons

If I can get 95% of the crumbs and I miss 5% and I know, you know, the next time the person in the kitchen is going to make a mess and it's going to be like 20 minutes later and I'm going to be mad that they're in there cooking because I just swept the floor like, yeah, like let it be just okay.

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Kristine Goins

Let it be okay. I think that's the big piece of it and just be willing to put limits on how much time you spend on things that are not that important to our life experience. If you're not going to care about this thing in the next five years, it's probably not that important.

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Melissa Parsons

Right. Yeah. Most people don't even have to go out five years. It's like five days, five weeks, five months. Most people are like, I don't even remember what I was doing. If you tried to tell me what I was doing five months ago, I'd have no idea. Literally no idea. And then I want to touch on at the end of your talk, you talked about committing to simplicity and slowness and really how slowing down has helped you make some of your most profound shifts and doubling your timeline. Tell us all your wisdom on that, Kristine.

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Kristine Goins

I think slowing down is the most radical and powerful thing I've done, especially for my business. Like because I think especially when we think of making money and businesses, we think of like rev it up, how fast can we get to this revenue, but doubling my timelines, I think allows me to go deeper with what it is that I'm creating to be more reflective it's really nurturing from my nervous system because I'm not in this constant state of urgency on everything. And I think that it takes away some of that pressure or demand and allows you to actually sit in the experience that you're having. Like, you know, we're always talking about like the destination and you gotta enjoy the journey. Like, but if you're zooming there, you don't really get to enjoy it. Not in the same way and so for me doubling timelines and not you know making everything in life a race to get there I don't know who we're racing I really haven't even been able to figure that out yet like who are we racing it just makes everything I think a lot more pleasurable

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Melissa Parsons

Yeah. You said at the talk, stop asking, can I afford to slow down? And instead ask, can I afford not to slow down? Like, oh, so beautiful. And just to be able to enjoy it as you're going through without having your nervous system on red alert and just being able to take it slow and make it simple. And like, one of my favorite things to think about is like, what is the simplest way I can do this? Like, because I think we also have been conditioned to think that things have to be hard to be worth doing. And like, that's just another lie.

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Kristine Goins

Hard and complicated.

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Melissa Parsons

Yeah, exactly. Make the flow chart so complicated that even you don't know where you are in it half the time. Is there anything else that you want to share that I didn't ask you, Kristine, that you think would be helpful for my people?

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Kristine Goins

I think that if you, many times we have these whispers, and my mentor is called some whispers, you know, there's a feeling there's an urge, there's like an inner knowing that you have that you need to make a move that you need to change something. There's a pivot that needs to that's brewing. I would just say listen to it. Listen to it, because typically, it is guiding us to a place that we haven't been before. So it's a little uncertain, it's a little scary. But typically, it is the most life-changing, pleasure-giving, you know, most radical peace providing thing that we can do for ourselves. We all have them at certain, you know, certain points and seasons of our lives. And so I would just say anybody in your audience is experiencing those to the pay.

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Melissa Parsons

Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I think that what happens is if you don't listen when it's a whisper, well, first it takes being quiet and being slow to be able to hear the whisper sometimes. But if you don't listen when it's a whisper, it gets louder and louder and louder until maybe it's a crisis. And then you have to be pulled out of something and make a radical change that you could have made with a more calm nervous system earlier.

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Kristine Goins

Absolutely.

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Melissa Parsons

I heard a quote recently and I don't know who it was and I hate not crediting people. I'll try to find it after you and I get off this call and I'll put it in the show notes if I can find it. But it was a gentleman and he said that your anxiety speaks to you in questions and your intuition speaks to you in statements. And I thought that was so profound and that's what I was thinking when you were speaking about the whispers.

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Kristine Goins

Yeah, that is very true.

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Melissa Parsons

Yeah, so good. And then I want to finish with one of your quotes from the conference. You said, if time and not money were the measure of wealth, would you be rich? And then you said that wealth is waiting to be reclaimed, not earned, right? Because we think everything needs to be earned. That's another thing. So yeah, if time and not money were the measure of wealth, would you be rich? I'm happy to say that I am rich in that way. So thank you for being such a shining example for all of us.

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Kristine Goins

Thank you so much. Thanks for being a model, for being here. There's not many of us, and so I appreciate you.

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Melissa Parsons

Yeah.

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Kristine Goins

And the work that you're doing is so important.

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Melissa Parsons

We need to, uh, form a secret society, but let everybody in a not so secret society, loud, a loud society. Okay. If people want to find you Kristine, where do they go? What's the easiest way to catch you?

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Kristine Goins

They can find me on Instagram at the NomadMDs, on Facebook at the NomadMDs and at my website, thenomadmd.com.

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Melissa Parsons

Amazing. I will have Sweet Grace put all of that in the show notes and I just really appreciate you and value your time. So thank you for being here with us.

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Kristine Goins

Thank you.

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Melissa Parsons

All right, see you all next week.

Hey - It’s still me. Since you are listening to this podcast, you very likely have followed all the rules and ticked off all the boxes but you still feel like something's missing! If you're ready to learn the skills and gain the tools you need to tiptoe into putting yourself first and treating yourself as you would your own best friend, I'm here to support you. As a general life coach for women, I provide a safe space, compassionate guidance, and practical tools to help you navigate life's challenges as you start to get to know and embrace your authentic self.

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You're ready to invest in yourself and embark on this journey, so head over to melissaparsonscoaching.com, go to the work with me page, and book a consultation call. We can chat about all the support I can provide you with as we work together.

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