#173 It Doesn't Have to Be This Way with Drs. Robin Beardsley, Risa Adams, and Elizabeth Parsons

Hey, this is Melissa Parsons, and you are listening to the Your Favorite You Podcast. I'm a certified life coach with an advanced certification in deep dive coaching. The purpose of this podcast is to help brilliant women like you with beautiful brains create the life you've been dreaming of with intentions. My goal is to help you find your favorite version of you by teaching you how to treat yourself as your own best friend.

If this sounds incredible to you and you want practical tips on changing up how you treat yourself, then you're in the right place. Just so you know, I'm a huge fan of using all of the words available to me in the English language, so please proceed with caution if young ears are around.

Melissa Parsons

Hello everyone and welcome back to Your Favorite You. When I tell you that I have been looking forward to this conversation with these three amazing women ever since I heard about and started reading their amazing book, I am not lying. I have dog-eared the hell out of this book and it is called It Doesn't Have to Be This Way and it was written by these three amazing physicians who are all Canadian physicians, Robin Beardsley, Risa Adams, and Elizabeth Parsons. So welcome to Your Favorite You, ladies. So I was telling them before we started recording that initially I was going to read all of their bios and I thought that that would, I mean, they're all amazing, of course, in their own right and they all have beautiful bios, but I thought that would be a little bit boring. So I'm going to have you guys introduce yourselves the same way that I have everyone who comes on the podcast introduce themselves, and that is by way of telling us about your favorite version of you. So I think we all have evolved over the years, hopefully, and that's one of my favorite things about being human is that we get to evolve and that we couldn't ever possibly be cooked or baked or done and we're constantly evolving. So if you wouldn't mind just kind of giving us a short introduction to Your Favorite You. And so I'm going to go alphabetically by last name, so Risa, you're first.

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Risa Adams

Hmm. Okay. Well, thank you, Melissa. Let's see my favorite you. Well, as a preview to how we might speak here, I might have a whole bunch of different favorite means depending on which part of me you ask. So the first part that pops up is like, ah, my favorite me is when I'm going down the basketball court dribbling and feeling confident and feeling, you know, just alive and with play. Another one says, my favorite me is actually in spaces like this where I'm connected with other people who are open-hearted and, you know, here to speak what feels true, what's true, and I can be real, I can be myself.

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Melissa Parsons

Mm-hmm.

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Risa Adams

I think that actually feels like a settled kind of answer.

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Melissa Parsons

And that's amazing. Thank you so much. All right, Robin, this means you're next, since you're Beardsley.

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Robin Beardsley

Yeah, so I just appreciate Risa what you're saying, because it allows me to drop in, which so often happens. So I would say there's something about being seen in my, it's vulnerable being seen in my love, but that's kind of, yeah, it's kind of like what I what I what I love, or it's that sense of being connected. And yeah, there's there's also this kind of energy or bubbliness that can come out. And sometimes a part says too much. But it's I do love when I'm feeling energized and feeling out there. And, you know, it's okay to be seen this way. So that's what I love about these spaces. Because it's been probably squashed in other spaces. So yeah.

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Melissa Parsons

So beautiful. All right. How about you, Elizabeth?

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Elizabeth Parsons

Um, well, it's interesting because listening to Risa and Robin, I have parts like, okay, which one's mine, which one's mine? And, um, so I, I came out with two that feel really true and, and present right now. And, um, so sort of a professional and personal favorite me. So professional is something newer for me in the last few years is really, um, feeling more confident in a leadership role in, particularly in therapy groups that I run and just feeling, oh, I can't even come up with the words, but just the rightness of it and the, the comfort in it and, um, the importance of it. And, uh, and then in a more personal sense, one of my favorite means is, is laughing and joking with my, my kids who are all young adults and my husband and just like the wonderful humor that we have together and the way that we know each other.

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Melissa Parsons

Yeah, through humor is so fun. I have that with my husband and sons too. And it's, it's the least fun when they're making fun of mom, but that's how I know that they're really loving me. So you guys, I swear I was looking to see, I first, when I read this book, I dog-eared 50 of the 192 pages. That's 26%. Okay. And like little stars and, you know, my student part was all over it. And then when I was preparing for the podcast, I was like, okay, like we can't go through the whole damn book. Like people need to buy the book and read it. Right. So it's called, it doesn't have to be this way, a physician's guide to radical self-care by three physicians who've been there. And that is the three of you. And I just love what you say in the intro. And I'm wondering if you guys mind if, so my listeners, some are physicians because of who I am, but a lot are not. They're in lots of different roles. So I think that, you know, the physician experience is unique, but I think a lot of it is also pretty universal to, to, achieving women, which is, you know, what most of my audience is. So if it's okay with you, I'd like to read just the first part of the introduction. I'm going to quote you guys to you guys. Okay. So it says, “This book is written by physicians for physicians about being physicians. It's an invitation to get curious about yourself, about how you have adapted to medical culture and to learn how to shift, how you relate to the parts of you who help you in your role. This book is for you, if any of the following apply to you.” So listeners be listening, because I know that this applies to, to you guys. Your life and being a physician isn't what you thought it would be. You feel like you've lost an important part of yourself or sense of purpose. It doesn't feel like there's enough of you to go around." Who doesn't feel that? Wow. You feel lost, angry, confused, helpless, hopeless, or burnout. And then finally you want to feel more alive. So I can't imagine that people listening who are, you know, high achieving women, whether they are physicians like us or not, wouldn't relate to at least one, if not all of those things. So my takeaway and your homework, if you're listening, is to go buy the book and read it. And, you know, even if you're not a physician, you probably have a physician and it would be helpful to, you know, understand kind of what, what it is we go through and how our parts show up to help us and sometimes hinder us throughout life. So I'm curious, when I was reading this, I know for sure that you each had parts that thrived during training and early attending hood and that type of thing. And you each probably had parts that you might have needed to ignore or to squash and that type of thing. And if you guys would be willing to kind of share what those parts were with the people who are listening, so maybe they can relate or see themselves in you. And I won't go in any order. You guys can fight over who goes first.

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Robin Beardsley

But maybe just say it again, Melissa, it's that it's what did we have to squash?

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Melissa Parsons

Yes. And the first part is what parts of you thrived when you were first in training and, you know, early attending hood, and then what parts of you did you have to squash? So for example, for me, like my perfectionist part, my control enthusiast part who wanted to, you know, make sure that all the I's were dotted and the T's were crossed and that type of thing. And wanted to make sure that we had memorized and we knew the Krebs cycle forward and backward and, you know, everything in between, you know, those parts initially were like, whoa, we got this, we're jazzed and, you know, excited and that type of thing. And, you know, those are also the parts that were like, at the end, like, what the hell, this isn't what we signed up for. And then the parts of me that I had to squash. So maybe some of those more playful parts, maybe some of those more tender parts, I was a pediatrician. So, you know, I did get to, I chose a career that was more fun and playful and that type of thing. And I also chose a career where I think I could be a little bit more tender with parents and be a little bit more transparent and that type of thing. I didn't realize I was doing it at the time for my parts, right? But I now thinking back, I was. So I'm just curious. I mean, I know you guys say in the book a lot, you share so beautifully and courageously and vulnerably and generously, you know, your experiences and how they shaped you and how they got you to be interested in IFS and, you know, that type of thing. So I'm just curious if what I'm saying resonates or if you have certain parts of you that made it so that it was easy for you to be a doctor and certain parts that made it maybe harder. It's a different way to ask the question.

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Risa Adams

It can go, but if someone else wants to, it's helpful to hear it again and hear your examples. It was kind of like, huh, what parts of me thrived? Did any parts of me thrive? And I can see some early moments where certainly there's a lot of like shiny hope. Certainly, the curious intellectual loving learning parts, you know, before actually going to clerkship, a lot of thriving in the learning and just like, you know, the wonder at the system, you know, I always come back to the kidney as stumping me, but in a way that I really appreciate, you know, like respect. And then in my early days of practice, there was a lot of really good feelings and pride in feeling like I could be someone who, as you were saying to you, Melissa, would care, would take time, you know, so those helping parts, caring and caretaking parts, advocate parts. I worked at a community health center, which serves a lot of the marginalized folks who have had really hard experiences in their life and in the medical system, and so it felt good to parts of me to be like, hey, I'm doing this different, you know, this is really important, you know, you matter.

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Melissa Parsons

So it's safe for you to be here.

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Risa Adams

Yeah.

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Melissa Parsons

Or try to.

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Risa Adams

Yeah, exactly. And then as I was listening to you, I mean, there's so many different versions of what I could say about different parts that were squashed. But in this version, I feel how those parts themselves came to be squashed.

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Melissa Parsons

Mmhmm.

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Risa Adams

Because it came to feel like too much to try to do what they wanted me to do. What they wanted for people.

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Melissa Parsons

The same parts that thrived early later were the ones that made it harder.

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Risa Adams

Yeah, or just, you know there wasn't room for awe and wonder at the human body. You know, there wasn't time for that. It was, it was too, too dark and heavy and serious. Or other parts would come into, you know, like you, you can't care so much. You know, it's kind of killing you to feel so much. Not necessary. It wasn't explicit, you know, it could happen. Or implicitly, more kind of numbing or cynical parts would come in to cope.

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Melissa Parsons

Yeah, I definitely noticed that and just the cynicism and the gallows humor and that type of thing that we often used in medicine to try to cope with the very real things that were happening. So I appreciate that.

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Elizabeth Parsons

You want to go, Robin?

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Robin Beardsley

Yeah, I appreciated you speaking about your parts. It always helps me to tune in a little bit more. And that's one of the things that helped me to thrive is always being with another and being curious about what's going on for others. And I would say that I was surprised that I actually got into medicine, but loved. It was one of my friends when I was in university and I was studying, we were doing biology or something. She says, you just get too interested. Like what's going on? I was so thrilled with finally, you know, noticing what the body did. And so that was very, very much part of my learning and in there. I think what also helped for me is when we finally got into the hospitals and to actually be with the people, right? And that the things you were learning, there was somebody in behind that. And so that really helped me. I think I also was quite fortunate as I met my husband during my residency. And so it was new, it was different. I was compartmentalizing. And so that I often say he saved me on some level. It's kind of like I'm here doing this and I'm here doing this. And so there often was this compartmentalization that helped, but then that got hindered because I couldn't compartmentalize afterward. After a while, when things became so big or couldn't see the other side of things. I would also say that this wanting to make a difference was also something that was very big for me. And when I got into family medicine, I loved the, you could kind of choose which way you wanted to go. And so that curiosity was helpful. And I chose the, I would say now the safe route on some level. But also that's when I couldn't make a difference, then I would have to put down the things that or squash the parts of me that didn't feel they were being helpful. So out of that hopelessness and having to end the fear, I really had to push the fear away in order to be able until it became so big or yeah. So that's uh, yeah, I want to make sure there's time for those too. So yeah.

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Melissa Parsons

Thank you for sharing. Yeah.

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Elizabeth Parsons

For me, like, I think about my learning parts definitely really thrived in med school and residency. And parts of me that love change that just came to me was because medical training was so varied, like you would go for four weeks here and then six weeks there. And so there were parts of me that were always well, you know, even if this isn't going so well, there's something, you know, there's something around the corner. And I also just got in touch with the parts that really loved surgery, like urology in particular, and even for a second like thought about, you know, pursuing surgery, but just the really like concrete impact, you know, like we're going to do something physical to you and it's going to change your body and it's going to really help. At least that's how I thought of it as a med student, you know. So those parts really, really, you know, loved medical training. And then when I when I started work, I feel like it was more my parts that were really connecting with the person and being able to maybe a little bit of caretaking and helping like having solutions for people, but also just being with them, you know, which now as a therapist, I mean, that's really the primary thing, right? As being with people, but I was starting to connect with that even in early in practice. And the part, so many parts got squashed during training, even ones that I'm just now kind of connecting with. But what I'll name right now is like a lot of parts, I'm like, I'm quite, I was quite a shy person. I'm less so now. And I think some of that is, you know, the work, the work that I've done. But that was super hard. Like those parts just had to, like, I just had to do, I mean, you got so much interaction with people and, you know, the roles that you have as a student and resident. And so those parts and anxious parts like just didn't, I just had to keep going, I just had to do, had to do so. Wow.

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Melissa Parsons

Yeah, I think about it's so interesting because I definitely have a part that hates change. And when you said that, I was like, oh God, that was the worst part, like just getting comfortable somewhere and then immediately having to switch until it sucked. And then I was like, oh, thank God, we only have one more week of this and then we get to change. Like, so, so yeah, and then I've always been extroverted and my husband jokes that I could talk to the wall and it's true, I could. And just thinking about him, you're bringing something that I never really noticed that I didn't ever give him any credit for, not that he needs me to, but his shy introverted self, like having to meet, you know, 20 new people a day or having to see 20 people in a day, you know, it's like, oh, that would be so hard if you were introvert, you know, if you had a more introverted and anxious part. So I just think he's even more of a badass than I did before. He's going to be so happy, Elizabeth, that we got this discussion. Okay. You guys have kind of alluded to it a little bit, but how did each of you come to IFS? Like tell me everything.

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Elizabeth Parsons

I can start with that. I came to IFS because of Robin. I'd actually heard about it from a mutual colleague of ours probably a year or two before that. But then I think it was maybe a month before the training was going to happen. And Robin said, I'm going to this thing in Toronto and are you interested? And so I just emailed and said, are there any spots? And so, yeah, it just I had a sense that, yeah, this is that I want to do this. I didn't really know much about it. I just kind of jumped right in. But yeah, so thank you.

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Melissa Parsons

Were you a therapist before?

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Elizabeth Parsons

Yeah, I focused, we call it focusing a practice, so in Ontario anyway, so in 2007, I was already practicing therapy and then we got into the initial kind of introductory training in 2016. So yeah, so I've been a therapist for about 10 years before that.

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Melissa Parsons

So let me make sure I understand because I don't in Canada if you're in family medicine one of the focuses can be to become a therapist too yeah wow how interesting and how helpful.

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Elizabeth Parsons

Yeah, we're very lucky that we can do that.

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Melissa Parsons

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's amazing. Okay. So I, you know, that doesn't happen here. Like, if you want to become a therapist, you go a whole different route. And, you know, a lot of, a lot of my colleagues and friends have chosen that. And I said to my husband after I did IFS level one, as a coach, I was like, maybe I should go back to school and become a therapist. He's like, how many degrees does that part need, babe? I was like, yeah, you're probably right. I'm okay. Not what I have. And it's okay. And I can refer out to therapists if I need to, which I'm not afraid to do. And I was not afraid to do as a pediatrician either. I was referring all the time. If you had a problem with your kidney that I couldn't figure out, it wasn't going to be on me. It was going to be on the nephrologist or the urologist. So, okay, awesome. How about you guys, Risa and Robin?

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Robin Beardsley

I did psychotherapy, probably about 10% of my practice was always psychotherapy from the get-go. And I was doing, I mean, a lot of us do cognitive-based therapy, but I was also doing what's called Satir therapy, Virginia's tier as a family therapist. And so she talked about parts. And so I first started learning about parts and self from her theory. Um, but I heard about IFS, um, as I was, uh, we went to a conference and one of, and, um, Derek Scott came and did a presentation on IFS, um, and got very excited about it. Um, and yeah, I was just going to say defensive too. It's like, she found this as well, but it's different. It's different. So I always have to, somehow this part has to come in and say, Oh yeah, she made a difference. Exactly. So I just pause there. And, um, uh, but as I did, he was talking on grief and it just touched, uh, a weight for me to access that without being overwhelmed by it. Um, and, um, and that's where I first, um, you know, heard about a training that he was wanting to do. And I suggested, you know, let's get a whole bunch of people. And so Elizabeth was one of them and we got a whole bunch and then, um, yeah, that's how I got introduced to it and, uh, went from there.

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Melissa Parsons

All right, so cool. How about you, Risa?

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Risa Adams

Yeah, for me. I've heard other people say this too, and I feel like IFS found me, came to me as a free ebook that I can't seem to find, even though I never delete my emails, but I know that's how I found it. And I had my infant son on maternity leave. And one of the beautiful things about IFS for those listeners who haven't really heard of it yet, is that it's not only a psychotherapy, but it's like a life practice. And so reading this book, and getting the essential concepts of it, I could kind of start. So walking around with my son at hours on my hand, he's one of those babies who needed to be in close contact to be able to sleep. So I was just like playing with it with myself, like, Oh, what if this was a part of me and a part of me and just like, just like, everything just kind of shifted and opened. And I just, you know, mine was blown. And I had more clarity on some of my experiences that I never had before. And so it was just kind of love at first sight that way. You sold. Yeah, it was just, it was just so effective at connecting to what felt like a deeper truth in me. I just hadn't known how

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Melissa Parsons

Right, right, right. Yeah. And I think for me, you know, over time, you know, the more I work with my parts, the more parts I find, you know, and the more feel comfortable to come out. And when I'm in with my IFS therapist, and when I'm with myself and doing my own work and that type of thing. And of course, reading this book, like, I was like, Oh, yeah, man, I have an angry part, I have an empathic part, like, you know, you guys do such a nice job of going through and describing, you know, all the different possibilities. And I mean, I'm sure that there are more, but you know, you lay out a really nice framework for people. So I'm wondering, it sounds like some of you knew each other before and that type of thing. How did you guys come to writing the book?

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Robin Beardsley

Oh, we got together and I don't remember who suggested we do these prompting. I know I was doing some things with prompting in a mindfulness class I was doing, but I can't remember who.

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Risa Adams

I think I was taking a writing class, it's called Amherst Writing, AWA. Yeah, so we had known each other, actually, we had gotten connected and we're really kind of supporters of each other in learning IFS. And we went to our level one together in person. And so we were we were in touch and connected in that way. And then the pandemic hit. And I had just learned these prompts. So it's just like, you know, a good doctor dot dot dot about prompts and the method being that you just then write, you just write for a certain amount of time, just keep your pen or pencil going or your keyboard. And then there's an opportunity to share, to speak some of your writing, to be heard, and for the others to reflect either what they heard that resonated with them or what felt strong to them. So it's a really inclusive kind of affirming writing process. And so we somehow decided we would start doing that on I think it was Wednesday mornings from the get go. And so we just found it so powerful and connecting, you know. So the beginning of the pandemic, I won't speak for Robin and Elizabeth, but for me was extremely activating. I had also left primary care prior to that a number of years earlier to focus on psychotherapy. But there were words going around like I don't know if it was conscription, but it was something like that. You know, kind of marshalling you back into the hospital. And so I had some parts really get activated from earlier in my medical career and earlier in my life of feeling like something powerful was happening to me. And it was very strong and challenging. And so it felt so helpful. IFS was so helpful, you know, in general at that time and then coming together. And our intention was to write for ourselves. So we were writing to, you know, be with our own parts to, you know, so witness them, understand them. Yeah. And so it was first. But within pretty soon, we're like, this is a book like this is easily a book. You know, people, other people need to experience what we're experiencing with each other, right, which is the power of this vulnerability of sharing things about how hard that was or how scared I was or what I didn't know. Or, you know, this is, you know, what parts of me believe we have to be to be a good doctor, to be acceptable, to not be a failure and to have, you know, variation, but so much commonality, so healing for ourselves. And so we continued in that way for ourselves and for each other. And then, you know, eventually it became a more focused project.

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Melissa Parsons

Yeah, that's so beautiful. I'm so grateful that the three of you did this work together and that it was just for yourselves. I think that's so beautiful. And I think about the power of being willing to go first in our vulnerability and how it never has to create this ripple effect for it to be amazing for us. And it always does create this pretty amazing ripple effect that helps other people. And I just love it.

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Robin Beardsley

I might just add that because we were doing this together, I didn't feel alone in the parts that were coming up as I was writing because I was really seen and heard and I could express and I was hearing others express similar things. And so, in this writing, I don't believe I could have written this on my own, so it didn't feel quite as, I mean, yes, it still felt vulnerable, but it didn't feel as such because we were together and because we were, anyway, it just feels like there was such a connection. It was powerful healing and we really, that's where we were coming from, really wanting that healing for others, or at least that's how I feel it, and it continues.

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Elizabeth Parsons

Yeah, it does. I agree with that Robin in the, like we've talked about this before, but for me, the process that we went through was really necessary for the book to kind of like arose out of that process. So it wasn't like we came with, okay, we have this idea for a book and we're going to, you know, outline it and we're going to write it. It was, you know, what's arising for us. And yeah, that was such a key piece, I think, in shows in the book.

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Melissa Parsons

Yeah, kind of like Risa was saying, the book found you.

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Elizabeth Parsons

Yeah.

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Melissa Parsons

Yeah, so interesting.

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Risa Adams

Yeah, it was knocking. There was a couple of years there, I just kept, I remember I was just saying like, oh, we just had even like a couple of full days. That was really naive and reflection. It takes quite a number of, just a couple of days it turns out. Yeah.

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Melissa Parsons

Oh my gosh. Yeah, I'm just thinking about, you know, so many terrible things happened out of the pandemic. Obviously, people lost their lives and, you know, have ongoing long COVID syndrome and, you know, that type of thing. And I'm always, always trying to look for, I have a part that is always trying to look for the glimmers and the good things and that type of thing. And, you know, I am always going to think of the pandemic now as the ability for you guys to actually have the time to sit and take time with these prompts and have the book come to you and listen to the knocking that has, that had happened. And I just think, you know, if I can get this book into as many hands as possible, like, I just want to help do that. So I'm going to change gears a little bit if that's okay. We hear a lot about self-care and how important it is for, you know, physicians. And I think a lot of us, when we don't know about, you know, capital S self and your definition of radical self-care, we think, oh, just one more fucking thing that I have to do, like add it to my list of a million things. Like, oh, now I also have to take care of myself. So can you guys explain what you mean by radical self-care?

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Elizabeth Parsons

Yeah. As our book is, we can collaborate on. Well, so the first thing that as you were saying that is the ability to do it in small pieces. This isn't about, you know, taking a vacation or having to do something really big and extra. It's how can you be there for yourself in what might seem like really small ways, but are going to have a profound effect over time. Yeah. So that's definitely one of the pieces we wanted to get across.

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Melissa Parsons

Yeah. And I think that, you know, we have this idea that it has to be big and that it has to be like taken away from the other things in our lives and that type of thing. But the more I can impress upon my people and everybody who's listening, this is not the first time that you're hearing this, you know, it's the little tiny steps that you take, you know, over and over and over that compound that make it so that it can, you know, be a huge shift and it just has to be degrees. It doesn't have to be, you know, doing a complete 180 or, you know, anything like that. So I love that. That's the first thing that you said, Elizabeth.

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Risa Adams

Yeah. Another aspect of radical self-care is radical, like to get to the root. And so the simplicity of IFS is that capital S self, so that healing, compassionate essence in each of us that is available if we kind of part the clouds, so to speak, of the parts who, you know, occlude that energy. So as Elizabeth is saying, those kind of micro moments that are noticing, so just simply a part of me, just acknowledging an experience of feeling a thought, acknowledging it. And with that, like, oh, getting a little bit curious, like a part of me is feeling this. That's that little unblending, that separation that allows a little bit of self-energy to be present. And the radical at the rootness is getting to parts who are lonely and distressed and trying to lead for us, when they actually need to be supported by, you know, our root self leader, you know. So in these little ways, you can start to accumulate more and more of this presence in ourselves and get to the root of things. And that's going to look and feel differently for every person.

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Melissa Parsons

Yeah. And different on different days too.

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Robin Beardsley

And what I might add to that is it's radical because it's doing less and so much of us, you know, we're supposed to do more if I just get there, if I just do this. And so for me, it was radical in the sense of we're doing less. It's more about uncovering that which is already here, but we don't have access to it. And it's also, I really started seeing from this, but also from self-compassion that I can relate to myself differently. When I see that there's a part here, rather than getting angry that it's here, or, you know, critical that it's here, how can I be curious about why is here? What's it trying to do? How is it trying to help me? And that's radical, right? Changing our relationship with ourselves for many self-care. It's kind of out there and doing something. And this is, yeah, it's more being within. That's very radical.

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Melissa Parsons

Mm-hmm. Yeah, just the idea of having some quiet time to actually let the clouds part and see what is there. And I think whenever anybody asks me about my favorite me, I always say she has a lot of white space on her calendar. And she doesn't, you know, make herself feel bad about it, you know, because prior me would have been like, oh, like you could be doing all these things and you're not. And now I'm like, I could be doing all these things and I'm not. So, so yeah, I love that. I love that. Um, and then I love, I'm going to quote you guys to yourselves again. You say self-care doesn't take away from high-quality patient care improves it. And I think just everything that you guys are saying, just like getting to know yourself on a deep level, having so much curiosity and compassion for yourself. Like we can't imagine it doing anything but improving the care that you give to the people who trust you to help them. So I have a note here that I must read the black box warning on page 12. So if you're not in medicine, a lot of medications have a black box warning and it's the warning like do not take this medicine. So do not read this book because of this black box warning. There are potential short and long-term side effects of getting to know your parts, including feeling your feelings, changing thoughts and beliefs, setting boundaries, disrupting relationships and making major life changes. And like, yes, to all this in the blacks, black box warning. It's so good. And I mean, literally we're like 45 minutes into the podcast and I'm on page 12 of the book. So there's just so many amazing takeaways. I think one of the things you guys talk about so much that many people in medicine don't realize is the importance of choice. I mean, the title of the book, it doesn't have to be this way. Like I think so many of us have gotten down the path of medicine and taken so many years to get where we are. And we think, oh, this is it. Like I'm stuck here. Like I have to do this. I gotta keep going and keep plotting away because, you know, even though we're not, a lot of us are not actually happy and many of us are burnt to a crisp. It's like, I don't know any other way to do life without just keeping on plotting away. So I love the importance of choice that you guys highlight throughout the book. And then does anybody want to speak about the hope of IFS?

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Risa Adams

Yeah, well, I'll speak really to what you were just saying before that, too. So, our hope is that, and I can feel the excited parts kind of rising up, some of the ones with the book, right? So, there's what we've been talking about, which is the more micro moments of finding choice, right? So, like, just feeling a little bit more space around whatever's happening for us. You know, even with that, that's making a choice right there, right? I don't have to keep going the way I've been going. I can slow down even just a little bit and get curious about what's happening. So, that's the hope at that level. And then there's the hope at the bigger level of, you know, it doesn't have to be this way in medicine, right? A lot of that, I know my own experiences, I resonated with what you said, Melissa, like, I'm this far, I just, I have to keep going, like, the camp, just not having imagination for anything else because we've put so much of our lives into getting to that point. So there's that level, but there's also can be a lot of just, you know, just feeling like, you know, there's one definition of culture of, like, this is the way things are done around here. And that can be so strong in medicine. And when you first read the book, and we're pointing out that not all of your listeners are doctors, I was kind of substituting as I listened to, you know, instead of medicine to kind of like patriarchy or just, you know, general culture, you know, when you're in this. And so it can feel so powerful and strong and like, there's no other way it ever could be. But if we are collectively opening our minds and hearts and getting curious, there's actually so much power in that and we don't need to any one of us know what that's going to look like or how we're going to do it. That's the hope that there can be more self-leadership within us and within medicine and, you know, culture at large when we access more choice and actually follow that, like, what actually feels right, not for what's right for me and some kind of like, you know, special me, I need to treat myself first, but just like what actually feels right, kind of deep in my heart, my deeper knowing of what's important here for myself and also for my community, my patients, you know, other physicians, just a much, much larger question. There's a lot of wisdom that's just under the surface.

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Melissa Parsons

Yeah, one of my favorite beliefs recently is anything that's good for me is also going to be good for everybody who loves me and everybody that I take care of. Oxygen mask. I underlined the beautiful paradox of radical self-care is that you can do more by doing less. And so I think Robin, Robin beat me to it.

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Robin Beardsley

Well, I just love that I have my hard working parts just can't believe that they really have had to experience it in order to believe it. And I would say that the hope of IFS in my own system is I'm, they have more access to me. And I'm not alone. Because we all the self reliant that that I felt and and in medicine often we really rely on those self-reliant parts, I think we are praising. Yeah, and I think even our just our medical system has relied on the self-reliance of physicians to carry the system.

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Melissa Parsons

Preach Robin. I just seriously...

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Robin Beardsley

It's like we can't keep going this way but really this is why I think there's a crisis because anyway so the hope is that change will come from within and you know we've talked I think at the back of the book I can't remember where but it's like what can you do in your own little space so what do I do in my office what do I do with my patients and can that have a ripple effect and so my parts that don't feel like they can make a bigger change do know and have experience that as I change or bring some of this in my life it has made a difference so that's it's kind of that ripple effect right like how many if we all do this collectively.

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Melissa Parsons

No, my goodness. If I could tell you, I mean, literally every one of my physician clients is trying to solve a systemic problem as an individual. And then, you know, it's set up this way against us. Like this is by design to make you feel like you have no choice and to keep you going as a cog in the wheel and that type of thing.And the more of us who hear this and we're like, Oh, okay, if I stop fixing, quote unquote, these problems on this micro level in my office, then or, you know, whatever in my practice, then the system is going to have to change eventually. But oh, I just my heart breaks every time I hear one of them trying to like, if you could have solved this problem, you already would have like all of my clients are such badasses. Like, if this was an individual problem, he would have solved it 10 years ago, 20 years ago for many.

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Elizabeth Parsons

I think, so that's for me anyway, and is one of the hopes of our book is not to say, okay, well, this is an individual thing. And if you do, if you follow these steps, then your life will be better. It's to, I hoped for people to realize if they haven't already that it's not them, it's the system, right? And so they're not alone in how they feel and in the parts that they experience in their own systems. And that in itself, I know for me has been such a relief to know that it's not my job to fix this and that it does take a collective effort. And to me, this book is part of that collective effort.

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Melissa Parsons

Agreed. I can't wait for everybody to read it. I'm so excited. Thank you guys so much for coming. Is there anything that I didn't ask that you feel like people need to hear about? Anything that you're like, oh, I wish somebody would ask us this question.

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Robin Beardsley

It's not so much about a question, I'm sure there is a question, but I also just want to say it's not about that we need more resilience. I have met the most resilient people in medicine, and it's not like we need more.

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Melissa Parsons

No, we do not have a resiliency problem.

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Robin Beardsley

And, and so I just want to put that out there too, because sometimes it feels like, oh, if I could just, you know, be stronger. And anyway, so that part just wanted to come forward that to say some of that.

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Melissa Parsons

Yeah. Yeah, so beautiful. Agreed. Anybody else anything to add before I let you all go to your lives in snowy Canada? Yes. It's snowy here too.

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Risa Adams

Yeah, it's quite beautiful. Um, one kind of practical and kind of encouraging point just kind of also with like, you know, like, oh, there's all the, all the places and all the things. And um, one, and also one of our hopes for the book is that it can be read in really small pieces, you know, like you can kind of flip open to almost any page and just get a little glimpse into, you know, one part of you, like something that might resonate. Um, so it's not something that you have to kind of make your way through the whole thing to get. But we kind of designed it as like, um, kind of as a companion, you know, we know so many physicians and, um, people are just so busy, but it's meant to be kind of like a sense of hope and perspective that you can take in little bits.

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Melissa Parsons

Yeah, little chunks. I love it. I love it. I love it. Of course, I read through it, plowed through it.

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Elizabeth Parsons

Yeah, you can do that too.

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Melissa Parsons

Yeah, my learning parts were like, we must finish this book, and then my wanting to be prepared parts were like, we need to go through this book again after that, because it had been a couple weeks since I had read it, and I enjoyed it so much the first time it was not a hardship.

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Elizabeth Parsons

Well, I think what I'd add to what Risa was saying is so we have a website and we have recorded the meditations that we that we talk about in the book and some PDFs of worksheets that people not worksheets, I don't want to call them that practices sheets, you know, that they can use to fill in as they connect with their own parts. So and that's just available if people want to kind of check that out.

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Melissa Parsons

Yeah, I will link all of that in the show notes, but just for people listening, if you're not driving, it's ifsmedicine.ca and you can get the beautiful meditations and the not worksheets.

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Robin Beardsley

Exploration things.

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Melissa Parsons

Exactly. I know, I never thought at age 51 that I'd be buying a box of 48 crayons, but here we are, and I'm coloring, and yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, my parts, I don't know about you guys, but whenever my parts are asked what they would like to do if they didn't have to keep working so hard in my system to keep me safe, they always want to play, or they want to stay out in nature, or they want to rest, you know, so they're very, very simple.

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Melissa Parsons

Coloring is one of the ways that I like to play, just being outside on walks when it's not 13 degrees for a high in Ohio.

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Risa Adams

Thank you so much for having us, Melissa. I really appreciate your enthusiasm.

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Melissa Parsons

And thank you so much for getting to know your parts and your, you know, being self-led and doing all the radical things that you've done to care for yourselves over the years so that you could put this beautiful book out into the world for all of us. I really, really appreciate it. And I appreciate your time today too, and that we were all able to get together at the same time, which I think is kind of a minor miracle. So I will take it. So thanks again. And for those of you listening, I will, like I said, I won't do anything. Grace, my lovely podcast producer, will put everything in the show notes and you guys can find each of their information and more information about the book. We'll link to being able to purchase the book. And I hope that you guys are all inspired to go out and purchase and to read and to get to know yourselves a little bit better. See you all next week. Bye.

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